Mali list migration

[Robin Dunn]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of switching the wx mail lists to Google Groups.
(Just the wx- lists so far, the wxPython- lists will be done soon.)
Since Google imposes some limits on how many addresses that group
managers can add directly to a group I have instead opted to send out
invitations to join the group. Apparently doing too many of those also
triggers a red flag and so you may not receive the invitation until
after a Googler has reviewed my requests. If you see this message
before your invitations then feel free to preemptively join the groups
by going to the addresses below.

I also wrote a script to transfer the current mail archives to the new
Google groups. Although some messages were rejected, and some
"discussions" appear to be out of order, most of the messages made it
and are searchable. Some messages from the last day or so may not have
been forwarded, but I'll try to catch up on those if possible.

Please note that you do not have to have a gmail account to subscribe to
these groups, or to use your gmail account if you would rather have the
messages delivered to another address. If your preferred delivery
address is not the same as your gmail address or your current Google ID
then you may want to associate that address with your Google account so
you can manage your group subscriptions using your preferred email
delivery address. If you don't currently have a Google account then you
can simply create a new Google Groups account using your current email
address as the user name and it should link your new account to any
subscriptions. http://groups.google.com/


wx-announce:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-announce
wx-***@googlegroups.com


wx-buildbot:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-buildbot
wx-***@googlegroups.com


wx-commits:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-commits
wx-***@googlegroups.com


wx-commits:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-commits-diffs
wx-***@googlegroups.com


wx-dev:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-dev
wx-***@googlegroups.com


wx-discuss:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-discuss
wx-***@googlegroups.com


wx-os2pm:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-os2pm
wx-***@googlegroups.com


wx-testers:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-testers
wx-***@googlegroups.com


wx-translators:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-translators
wx-***@googlegroups.com


wx-users:
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users
wx-***@googlegroups.com

[Robin Dunn]

Post by Robin Dunn
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-commits
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-commits-diffs

Oops, sorry for the typo. That should be
wx-commits-***@googlegroups.com, but you shouldn't be sending directly
to that address anyway.

[Ori Lahav]

So, should I join wx-users in Google Groups now and remove myself from
lists.wxwidgets.org?

Ori.

Post by Robin Dunn

Post by Robin Dunn
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-commits
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-commits-diffs

Oops, sorry for the typo. That should be
to that address anyway.
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org
_______________________________________________
wx-users mailing list
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-users

[Robin Dunn]

Post by Ori Lahav
So, should I join wx-users in Google Groups now and remove myself from
lists.wxwidgets.org?

You can if you want, but I'll be shutting down the mailman lists on
lists.wxwidgets.org in a few days anyway.

[Harald Klein]

Hi all,

when I read this message on the migration of the lists, I wonder why a chance is necessary, and why Google. Google is known for a special treatment of user data, and I feel very uneasy about that.

Is this migration really necessary?

Kind regards

Harald

Post by Robin Dunn
Hi all,
I'm in the process of switching the wx mail lists to Google Groups.
(Just the wx- lists so far, the wxPython- lists will be done soon.)
Since Google imposes some limits on how many addresses that group
managers can add directly to a group I have instead opted to send out
invitations to join the group. Apparently doing too many of those also
triggers a red flag and so you may not receive the invitation until
after a Googler has reviewed my requests. If you see this message
before your invitations then feel free to preemptively join the groups
by going to the addresses below.
I also wrote a script to transfer the current mail archives to the new
Google groups. Although some messages were rejected, and some
"discussions" appear to be out of order, most of the messages made it
and are searchable. Some messages from the last day or so may not have
been forwarded, but I'll try to catch up on those if possible.
Please note that you do not have to have a gmail account to subscribe to
these groups, or to use your gmail account if you would rather have the
messages delivered to another address. If your preferred delivery
address is not the same as your gmail address or your current Google ID
then you may want to associate that address with your Google account so
you can manage your group subscriptions using your preferred email
delivery address. If you don't currently have a Google account then you
can simply create a new Google Groups account using your current email
address as the user name and it should link your new account to any
subscriptions. http://groups.google.com/
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-announce
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-buildbot
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-commits
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-commits-diffs
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-dev
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-discuss
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-os2pm
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-testers
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-translators
http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org

[Stephen Jackson]

Post by Robin Dunn
Hi all,
when I read this message on the migration of the lists, I wonder why a chance is necessary, and why Google. Google is known for a special treatment of user data, and I feel very uneasy about that.
Is this migration really necessary?

Please read this thread
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/pipermail/wx-users/2009-May/112793.html

Regards,

Stephen Jackson

[Fabian Cenedese]

Post by Stephen Jackson

Post by Robin Dunn
Hi all,
when I read this message on the migration of the lists, I wonder why a chance is necessary, and why Google. Google is known for a special treatment of user data, and I feel very uneasy about that.
Is this migration really necessary?

Please read this thread
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/pipermail/wx-users/2009-May/112793.html

Still, this will be the reason for me not joining the list anymore. I thank
all the developers for their work and wish you all the best for the future.

bye Fabi

[Vadim Zeitlin]

[I'm replying to wx-users only to avoid generating 5-6 copies of every
message for people subscribed to all wx mailing lists and would like
to encourage others to do the same]

On Sun, 17 May 2009 20:54:50 -0700 Robin Dunn <***@alldunn.com> wrote:

RD> I'm in the process of switching the wx mail lists to Google Groups.
RD> (Just the wx- lists so far, the wxPython- lists will be done soon.)
RD> Since Google imposes some limits on how many addresses that group
RD> managers can add directly to a group I have instead opted to send out
RD> invitations to join the group.

I've only got invitations for wx-commits-diffs and wx-dev (which I duly
joined), shall I expect to get invitations for the other lists I am/was
subscribed to (-announce, -discuss, -translators, -users)?

Also, I wonder if we can keep the current posting addresses (e.g.
wx-***@lists.wxwidgets.org) as aliases for the new ones (e.g.
wx-***@googlegroups.com)? In any case, we need to post the new mailing
lists coordinates on the web site and also update the mailing lists page
and any references to them in the files in svn.

Finally, I see the posting to the new Google groups is restricted to
members, was this intentional? I think it would be better to allow people
to post to at least wx-users without subscribing.

RD> I also wrote a script to transfer the current mail archives to the new
RD> Google groups. Although some messages were rejected, and some
RD> "discussions" appear to be out of order, most of the messages made it
RD> and are searchable. Some messages from the last day or so may not have
RD> been forwarded, but I'll try to catch up on those if possible.

Thanks! So far things look good (BTW does anybody know where did the
pre-2000 archives go?).

Regards,
VZ

[Kenneth Porter]

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
Finally, I see the posting to the new Google groups is restricted to
members, was this intentional? I think it would be better to allow people
to post to at least wx-users without subscribing.

That depends on how good Google's spam filtering is. I hate Sourceforge-
hosted lists because 90% of what I get from them is spam from non-
subscribers.

What's the value of the List-Id header for the new groups? I want to update
my procmail recipes to send the new lists to the correct folders.

[Vadim Zeitlin]

On Mon, 18 May 2009 12:27:57 +0000 (UTC) Kenneth Porter <***@sewingwitch.com> wrote:

KP> Vadim Zeitlin <***@wxwidgets.org> wrote in
KP> news:mailman.9.1242649347.15513.wx-***@lists.wxwidgets.org:
KP>
KP> > Finally, I see the posting to the new Google groups is restricted to
KP> > members, was this intentional? I think it would be better to allow people
KP> > to post to at least wx-users without subscribing.
KP>
KP> That depends on how good Google's spam filtering is.

It can't be worse then what we did before because AFAIK we didn't do
anything, did we?

Regards,
VZ

[Kenneth Porter]

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
KP> That depends on how good Google's spam filtering is.
It can't be worse then what we did before because AFAIK we didn't do
anything, did we?

True.

I've been reading via newsreader using a couple of news servers
(Speakeasy's and http://motzarella.org/), and haven't seen much spam, so
those servers probably do a good job of filtering their feeds.

Google Groups, OTOH, has terrible filtering and you can that their archive
of the newsgroup version of the list is full of spam:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.soft-sys.wxwindows/topics

So if list readers want to read the list with most of the spam removed,
they should read it through a good news server.

However, that depends on having a working newsgroup gateway once the list
moves.

[Carsten A. Arnholm]

Post by Kenneth Porter
So if list readers want to read the list with most of the spam removed,
they should read it through a good news server.
However, that depends on having a working newsgroup gateway once the list
moves.

Please, do provide a newsgroup gateway!

Carsten Arnholm

[Robin Dunn]

Post by Kenneth Porter

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
Finally, I see the posting to the new Google groups is restricted to
members, was this intentional? I think it would be better to allow people
to post to at least wx-users without subscribing.

That depends on how good Google's spam filtering is. I hate Sourceforge-
hosted lists because 90% of what I get from them is spam from non-
subscribers.
What's the value of the List-Id header for the new groups? I want to update
my procmail recipes to send the new lists to the correct folders.

It looks like this (for wx-dev):

List-Id: <wx-dev.googlegroups.com>

[Kenneth Porter]

Post by Robin Dunn
I'm in the process of switching the wx mail lists to Google Groups.

Will the newsgroup gateway still work? I've been reading the user list on
the newsgroup but getting the announce list by mail.

[Vadim Zeitlin]

On Mon, 18 May 2009 12:30:13 +0000 (UTC) Kenneth Porter <***@sewingwitch.com> wrote:

KP> Robin Dunn <***@alldunn.com> wrote in news:mailman.0.1242553532.15513.wx-
KP> ***@lists.wxwidgets.org:
KP>
KP> > I'm in the process of switching the wx mail lists to Google Groups.
KP>
KP> Will the newsgroup gateway still work?

I'd like to make it work by installing a gateway here (of course, if
anybody else is willing to do it it would be very welcome too) but so far I
haven't been able to find any non-abandoned (i.e. unlike
http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ and
http://freshmeat.net/projects/mail2news-easy/) software for doing this. If
anybody has any hints about setting up such gateway I'd be very glad to
hear them.

Thanks,
VZ

[Kenneth Porter]

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
I'd like to make it work by installing a gateway here (of course, if
anybody else is willing to do it it would be very welcome too) but so
far I haven't been able to find any non-abandoned (i.e. unlike
http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ and
http://freshmeat.net/projects/mail2news-easy/) software for doing
this. If anybody has any hints about setting up such gateway I'd be
very glad to hear them.

Since Google Groups also hosts newsgroups, perhaps this option is available
as part of their list-hosting package.

[Robin Dunn]

Post by Kenneth Porter

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
I'd like to make it work by installing a gateway here (of course, if
anybody else is willing to do it it would be very welcome too) but so
far I haven't been able to find any non-abandoned (i.e. unlike
http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ and
http://freshmeat.net/projects/mail2news-easy/) software for doing
this. If anybody has any hints about setting up such gateway I'd be
very glad to hear them.

Since Google Groups also hosts newsgroups, perhaps this option is available
as part of their list-hosting package.

That's what I thought too, but it isn't.

http://groups.google.com/group/Managing-Your-Group/browse_thread/thread/4ac6e9e8ec60c96b/cd8f737b9a03cfe8

[Gerald Brandt]

Does anyone know how I can get Google Groups to forward messages to my email?

Gerald

[Robin Dunn]

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
I've only got invitations for wx-commits-diffs and wx-dev (which I duly
joined), shall I expect to get invitations for the other lists I am/was
subscribed to (-announce, -discuss, -translators, -users)?

Yes, I think so. Since I was adding so many at once it triggered a rule
that means that they need to be reviewed by a google-human before they
will be sent out. You can also join without getting the invitation if
you don't want to wait.

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
Also, I wonder if we can keep the current posting addresses (e.g.

Yes. I plan on adding a new alias for each of the lists as I remove the
mailman settings for them.

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
In any case, we need to post the new mailing
lists coordinates on the web site and also update the mailing lists page
and any references to them in the files in svn.
Finally, I see the posting to the new Google groups is restricted to
members, was this intentional? I think it would be better to allow people
to post to at least wx-users without subscribing.

Yes, it was intentional. That's also how the current mail lists are
set. We made the change a year or so ago to cut spam, and now the only
spam that I see from the lists comes via the news gateway.

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
RD> I also wrote a script to transfer the current mail archives to the new
RD> Google groups. Although some messages were rejected, and some
RD> "discussions" appear to be out of order, most of the messages made it
RD> and are searchable. Some messages from the last day or so may not have
RD> been forwarded, but I'll try to catch up on those if possible.
Thanks! So far things look good (BTW does anybody know where did the
pre-2000 archives go?).

I've been wondering that too. The only thing I can come up with is a
vague memory of some incompatible format in our mbox files when we moved
from one system to another in the past.

[Robin Dunn]

Post by Gerald Brandt
Does anyone know how I can get Google Groups to forward messages to my
email?

Yes. Join the group and then in Group Settings select to have the
messages sent by email. If your preferred delivery address is not
listed then you can add a new address in your profile and then come back
to your Group Settings page and select that address.

[Bryan Petty]

Post by Fabian Cenedese

Post by Stephen Jackson
Please read this thread
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/pipermail/wx-users/2009-May/112793.html

Still, this will be the reason for me not joining the list anymore. I thank
all the developers for their work and wish you all the best for the future.

What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
up a Google account, you can use your email address only just the same
as you always have. It's not like these lists were private lists
either, anyone could get your email address by subscribing and looking
through the archives. Additionally, we were already mirroring these
mailing lists with Google Groups for years now. Nothing has really
changed other than what servers are archiving and handling mail
delivery.

Regards,
Bryan Petty

[Robin Dunn]

Post by Bryan Petty

Post by Fabian Cenedese

Post by Stephen Jackson
Please read this thread
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/pipermail/wx-users/2009-May/112793.html

Still, this will be the reason for me not joining the list anymore. I thank
all the developers for their work and wish you all the best for the future.

What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
up a Google account, you can use your email address only just the same
as you always have. It's not like these lists were private lists
either, anyone could get your email address by subscribing and looking
through the archives.

And a nice thing about GG that we don't have in the current archives is
that GG totally hides all email addresses in the archive, including any
in the body of the message. It's a bit annoying at times, but much more
secure.

Post by Bryan Petty
Additionally, we were already mirroring these
mailing lists with Google Groups for years now.

You're probably thinking of Gmane. The only thing that was on GG before
is their mirror of the USENET group that is a mirror of wx-users.

[Fabian Cenedese]

Post by Bryan Petty

Post by Fabian Cenedese

Post by Stephen Jackson
Please read this thread
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/pipermail/wx-users/2009-May/112793.html

Still, this will be the reason for me not joining the list anymore. I thank
all the developers for their work and wish you all the best for the future.

What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
up a Google account

That doesn't seem to be the case now. Whenever I try to join the list
via http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/subscribe
it requires me to login to google groups/create a google account.

bye Fabi

[Mark Gollahon]

Same here. Did I miss the proper link?

Post by Fabian Cenedese

Post by Bryan Petty

Post by Fabian Cenedese

Post by Stephen Jackson
Please read this thread
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/pipermail/wx-users/2009-May/112793.html

Still, this will be the reason for me not joining the list anymore. I thank
all the developers for their work and wish you all the best for the future.

What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
up a Google account

That doesn't seem to be the case now. Whenever I try to join the list
via http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/subscribe
it requires me to login to google groups/create a google account.
bye Fabi
_______________________________________________
wx-users mailing list
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-users

[Vadim Zeitlin]

On Wed, 20 May 2009 08:30:40 +0200 Fabian Cenedese <***@indel.ch> wrote:

FC> >What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
FC> >up a Google account
FC>
FC> That doesn't seem to be the case now. Whenever I try to join the list
FC> via http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/subscribe
FC> it requires me to login to google groups/create a google account.

Have you tried sending email to wx-users-***@googlegroups.com?
VZ

[H. Vidal, Jr.]

In my experiences with Google groups:

1. If you want to bulk add addresses as the group
administrator, it is useful to add about 10 at a time.
Much more than that and the system will flag this as a
potential spam scam. However, once you get past this
once (i.e. you get flagged, Google folks decide you
are not spam, then allow the address additions),
you can generally add more than 10 addresses at
a time.

2. As an administrator, in addition to being able
to add addresses (email addresses, that is), you
are also able to invite addresses. These addresses
(which don't have to be google addresses) get an
invite, a URL, they click to accept, then they
see the traffic coming into the group.

That's the centrally administered view of the group
system. However, I have not been able to get folks
to just 'register' for a group if they do NOT have
a google account, if they are not invited and
they are not hand-added.

I am not particularly good at administering these
kinds of things (perhaps because it's not that important
to me, my failing.....), so don't take my word at gospel.
Alternately, if anybody figures out how to do this
(meaning, get into list without having a google
account), please post solution to same, it would
be very handy in general.

hv

Post by Mark Gollahon
Same here. Did I miss the proper link?

Post by Fabian Cenedese

Post by Bryan Petty

Post by Fabian Cenedese

Post by Stephen Jackson
Please read this thread
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/pipermail/wx-users/2009-May/112793.html

Still, this will be the reason for me not joining the list anymore. I thank
all the developers for their work and wish you all the best for the future.

What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
up a Google account

That doesn't seem to be the case now. Whenever I try to join the list
via http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/subscribe
it requires me to login to google groups/create a google account.
bye Fabi
_______________________________________________
wx-users mailing list
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-users

_______________________________________________
wx-users mailing list
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-users

[Fabian Cenedese]

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
FC> >What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
FC> >up a Google account
FC>
FC> That doesn't seem to be the case now. Whenever I try to join the list
FC> via http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/subscribe
FC> it requires me to login to google groups/create a google account.

I did now and it seems I got subscribed. It would even be better if this
was somewhere mentioned on http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users .

Thanks

bye Fabi

[Vadim Zeitlin]

On Wed, 20 May 2009 16:59:29 +0200 Fabian Cenedese <***@indel.ch> wrote:

FC> >FC> >What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
FC> >FC> >up a Google account
FC> >FC>
FC> >FC> That doesn't seem to be the case now. Whenever I try to join the list
FC> >FC> via http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/subscribe
FC> >FC> it requires me to login to google groups/create a google account.
FC> >
FC> > Have you tried sending email to wx-users-***@googlegroups.com?
FC>
FC> I did now and it seems I got subscribed. It would even be better if this
FC> was somewhere mentioned on http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users .

I don't have the permissions to create pages for the group, I guess only
Robin does. So I hope Robin can create a page explaining this. Or maybe
Robin can grant me the rights necessary to do it?

Regards,
VZ

[Gerald Brandt]

I didn't get a request to join wx-users yet. Should I have?

Gerald

[Mark Gollahon]

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
FC> >What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
FC> >up a Google account
FC>
FC> That doesn't seem to be the case now. Whenever I try to join the list
FC> via http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/subscribe
FC> it requires me to login to google groups/create a google account.
VZ

That seems to have worked for me. I'll know once the messages start
flowing....

[Robin Dunn]

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
FC> >FC> >What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
FC> >FC> >up a Google account
FC> >FC>
FC> >FC> That doesn't seem to be the case now. Whenever I try to join the list
FC> >FC> via http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/subscribe
FC> >FC> it requires me to login to google groups/create a google account.
FC> >
FC>
FC> I did now and it seems I got subscribed. It would even be better if this
FC> was somewhere mentioned on http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users .
I don't have the permissions to create pages for the group, I guess only
Robin does. So I hope Robin can create a page explaining this. Or maybe
Robin can grant me the rights necessary to do it?

Yes, I had planned on making you a manager on all the lists. Are you
subscribed to wx-users yet? I don't see you in the list.

[Robin Dunn]

I didn't get a request to join wx-users yet. Should I have?

The status still shows that a review of the request to send the invites
is pending.

[i***@earthlink.net]

Hi, Robin,

-----Original Message-----

Sent: May 20, 2009 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Mail list migration

Post by Vadim Zeitlin
FC> >FC> >What exactly is the problem? Google Groups doesn't require you to sign
FC> >FC> >up a Google account
FC> >FC>
FC> >FC> That doesn't seem to be the case now. Whenever I try to join the list
FC> >FC> via http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/subscribe
FC> >FC> it requires me to login to google groups/create a google account.
FC> >
FC>
FC> I did now and it seems I got subscribed. It would even be better if this
FC> was somewhere mentioned on http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users .
I don't have the permissions to create pages for the group, I guess only
Robin does. So I hope Robin can create a page explaining this. Or maybe
Robin can grant me the rights necessary to do it?

Yes, I had planned on making you a manager on all the lists. Are you
subscribed to wx-users yet? I don't see you in the list.

AFAIR, you said that one invitation is enough.
I received an invitation to join wx-dev, didn't get one for wx-users.
I joined wx-dev and now receiving messages from wx-dev only.

I believe the system has to send as many invitations as the user was
previously subscribed to on the old mailing lists. I.e. if I were subscribed
to wx-dev and wx-users I should get 2 invitations and not just one.

Thank you.

--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org
_______________________________________________
wx-users mailing list
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/mailman/listinfo/wx-users

[Robin Dunn]

Post by i***@earthlink.net
AFAIR, you said that one invitation is enough.
I received an invitation to join wx-dev, didn't get one for wx-users.
I joined wx-dev and now receiving messages from wx-dev only.
I believe the system has to send as many invitations as the user was
previously subscribed to on the old mailing lists. I.e. if I were subscribed
to wx-dev and wx-users I should get 2 invitations and not just one.

Correct. I sent invites for all the wx groups to the subscribers of the
existing mail lists. For the wx-users grou Google hasn't yet approved
the invites so they haven't been sent out yet. That doesn't prevent you
from subscribing on your own however.